Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  33

  Question for still active JW's / Faders

  by cantleave in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you still contribute for literature, give to the worldwide work, kingdom hall fund or contribute towards the upkeep of your local kh?

  if you do - why?.

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  Doubting Bro

  I haven't given for about 3 years. Not one cent. Instead, I give to real charities and to individuals in need.
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  14

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 12-20-09 WT Study (MY FRIENDS)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  comments you will not hear at the 12-20-09 wt study (october 15, 2009, pages 13-17)(my friends).

  review comments will be in red or headed by comments.

  wt material from today's wt will be in black.

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  Doubting Bro

  I mentioned this on another post but normally I can tune out the dribble coming from the platform. But, not this past Sunday. Paragraphs 15-18 pissed me off beyond belief. If you read the entire chapter, Jesus was constrating those who follow him merely by word and those who follow him by deed. Then he summarizes during the separating what he meant by deeds when he told the "sheep" that because they were willing to take care in a tangible way (providing food, shelter, care) for the least of the people of the earth, then they would be rewarded. He told those that performed religious works in his name but didn't lift a finger to care for the least of the people of the earth that they would be destroyed for their lack of compassion.

  I never thought about this passage before Sunday but clearly if you were to claim to be a follower of Jesus, you would be involved in some sort of charitible works. It doesn't appear to be an option. Although Jesus gave his followers the command to "spread the word", notice that he didn't use that as a measuring stick in Matt 25:41-45. It suddenly hit me that that's one of the biggest reasons that mainstream Christian religions are so involved in charity. They really see it as an integral part of their faith. James 1:27 says the same basic thing that taking care of the less fortunate is the essense of the faith.

  Of course, other individuals both religious and non-religious (I consider myself non-religious) do good deeds and they are genuinly trying to help. But for the WTS to claim to be a Christian organization and do very little to help the less fortunate, the exception being the relief work that sometimes helps out non-JWs, is really contrary to what the philosophy of Jesus.

  If there is a God, I think we would be judged based on how we treat others. Certainly, the WTS would fall into the goat side based on their conduct.
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  41

  I just feel like crying... I'm so fed up of the hypocrisy!

  by cattails in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was very disgusted with the wt study for today.. towards the end of the article it refers to matthew 15 (see quoted scripture below).

  this is a beautiful passage where jesus says his followers need to be hospitable, care for sick, hungry and imprisoned brothers.. they turn it around and say that for jw's this means they need to support the "faithful and discreet slave" by going in door-to-door witnessing, making monetary contributions to support the worldwide witnessing work, and following the directions and counsel of congregation elders.. and the worst part of it all is that there were several commenters giving almost word for word answers to that effect, they didn't even seem to listen to previous comments, they just repeated mindlessly what the paragraph said... i was ready to burst.

  mom knew i was about to have a fit right there and then.

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  Doubting Bro

  I thought I was getting pretty good at zoning out at the meetings but paragraphs 15-18 in yesterday's WTS really burned me up as well. I read Matt 24 & 25 all the way through to get the context of Jesus discussion with his disciples. There is no way that in a straight reading, you could come up with the WTS explaination of how the separation of the sheep & goats depends on how people receive Jesus "brothers" aka the Governing Body.

  Even the passage regarding the sheep & goats was very clear. It said that all the people of earth were gathered, Jesus put some on his right and some on his left. To the folks on the right, he said that because they were kind to the least of these (subject of the sentence is all the people of the earth), then you'll be saved. He even said that all those folks on his right were his brothers.

  To the folks on the left, he said because they weren't kind to the least of these (again, subject of the sentence is all the people of the earth), then you'll be destroyed. He didn't call them his brothers.

  The WTS assertion that Jesus was referring to his brothers as the folks you were supposed to be kind to is ridiculous. It doesn't fit into the context of the passage or really make any sense at all. It also doesn't fit into the whole message of Jesus which was to be good to your fellow man.

  Like others have said, when a believing JW I never batted an eye at any of these crazy interpretations but now that I sit there after having seeing the man behind the curtain, I can clearly see how they try to twist everything in the Bible to being about themselves.

  God forbid they ever encourage any kind of community service (other than bothering people and attempting to "place" literature). If there is a God and a judgement day, I'm thinking the WTS will end up being on the left hand side of this senario.
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  24

  Holy spirit making its first mistake

  by stillin9 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  well, it seems like that the holy spirit is making its first mistake!

  they want to appoint me as a ministrial servant!

  i wonder if that means that apostasy while being apointed as a ms is okay?!

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  Doubting Bro

  TOH

  The HS is therefore seen as operating or appointing in the sense that it is the force behind the spelling out of the requirements, the force behind the changes in living which the candidate has carried out, and the force working or influencing the elders during prayer.

  You are presenting the WTS take on this correctly. However, it always seemed to me the explaination never really made sense because of the highlighted portion. Either the HS is "speaking" to the elders in the sense that it is moving them to appoint or not appoint or its not. Sure, saying that if the person meets the qualifications in Tim & Titus (plus the extra qualifications from the WTS including 10 hrs in service, commenting at meetings, etc) is in a way being appointed by HS is fine with me. It's the whole, "let's pray over it to get Jehovah's direction" that seems to me that at least implies to the rank & file that HS had the final say.

  There's also the whole "the branch also prays over the appointments" issue which adds even more validity that the WTS claims divine appointment for even elders & MS. Clearly, its to reinforce their local authority (disagreeing with the elders can be seen as disagreeing with Jehovah). But, they back off that claim when it's evident that they've made a mistake.

  BTW, many clergy and layclergy in other Christian denominations will often say they were "called" into their ministry, meaning the HS moved them to service. So, I'm not arguing that the WTS is alone in claiming divine direction in selecting religious leaders.

  The best argument the WTS can come up with on this issue is to point out that Judas was selected by Jesus to be an apostle and look how that turned out. Of course, it is said that Judas started out good and that Jesus didn't make a mistake. But, I've known several situations where men were appointed elders and at the same time doing things that would get them df'ed (such as having sex with a pioneer while someone was on a "long" RV to someone not his wife, he was a MS at the time and was soon appointed as an elder).
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  6

  The “conscious class”…

  by tjlibre in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the conscious class.... .

  i have just come across this term on the jwrecovery.org website.

  it appears to refer to those who are awakening and learning that the wt is just another religion that uses mind control to hold us captive, but for numerous reasons cant leave the org.

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  Doubting Bro

  It's hard to tell because everyone is afraid to honestly express themselves. I do see that the level of devotion has dropped from when I was a kid. I agree with tjlibre that many sense something isnt' quite right but can't put their finger on it. I recall speaking with a long time elder who I grew up with and respected saying that the "friends were just tired". He had become a VERY liberal elder and at that point (being the self righteous prick that I was) I thought he was out of bounds many times. Now, I see he was probably part of this "conscious" class and didn't really believe it. But, like many of us, he had his entire family on both sides in and probably doesn't believe it's worth it to walk away. I have a suspicion that he's taking the approach that he can help folks by being an elder by protecting them to some degree. I tried that at first but I finally realized that I didn't matter and couldn't reform the org.

  As tjlibre said, the first step is the hardest and the one that many people refuse to take. It's amazing that a lifetime of beliefs can be swept away in a few hours, yet that's really what happens. Jesus said that those who build faith on falsehood is like building a house on sand. Easily knocked down.
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  12

  African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church

  by snowbird in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was first organized in new york during the late 18th century.. prominent members included sojourner truth, harriet tubman, and frederick douglass.. many black churches followed suit and added zion to their names.. i know of a greater zion tabernacle, little zion missionary baptist church, and big zion ame church.. charles russell decided to drop zion from his magazine title because many people were associating his publication with a "colored" church.

  his explanation as follows is from the december 15, 1908 wt.. .

  with the new year we expect to drop the word "zion's" in the title of our journal, because many of the friends inform us that the word is objectionable, having been so much used by mr. dowie and his followers.

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  Doubting Bro

  Very interesting. Actually kind of shocking considering the percentage of African American JWs in the US.

  Here's a link on Dowie because I had no idea who he was.

  http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/170419/John-Alexander-Dowie
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  21

  Annual Pioneer "

  by Open mind in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs
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  Doubting Bro

  Absolutely! In my approximately 10 years as an elder, I conducted or helped conduct the Annual Pioneer meeting probably 7 out of 10 times. The outline was very similar in format (obviously different subject matter) to what the CO reviews with the elders & ms during his visit.

  One congregation we had only a couple of pioneers and we (the 2 elders conducting) would take them out after the meeting. We usually scheduled the meeting so that it was on a Sat evening and then go straight to dinner. Sometimes, other elders would come with us, sometimes the wives (if there were sister pioneers). Other times, it was just lunch. Sometimes the rest of the BOE would kick in some funds but if not we would do it on our own.

  I know of one congregation that got in trouble because one of the elders hosted a big dinner in honor of his congregation's pioneers. He was counseled by the CO for drawing too much attention to these individuals. He probably did go overboard but I think it was sincere.

  I always argued that since the meeting was supposed to encourage the pioneers to continue on, that there was nothing wrong with buying them a meal and giving them a little attention. I thought it was common (at least in the US) so I'm surprised more folks didn't experience it.

  It seems to me that the amount of socialization among JWs is much less than when I was a kid. I notice very few congregation picinics and the like.
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  22

  Slightly weird mess-up by the Society...service meeting part

  by sir82 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if there's one thing the society loves, it is punctuality and regularity.. every year for at least the past 30 years, without fail, you could set your atomic clock by it, what is the primary topic of the 1st service meeting in january?.

  you find out where and when your district convention will be that year.. so, looking at the december km, sure enough, there is an insert covering the usual topics (don't save seats, arrive on time, spit out your gum, don't pee in the hotel pool, etc.)..

  but wait a minute!

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  Doubting Bro

  Blondie - Yeah, I remember that one and that has to be one of the biggest screwups of all time. I was secretary at the time and if I recall correctly, we actually sent them back. I remember thinking at the time that was a big waste of postage that we could just throw them away. But, it also got me to thinking more seriously about the blood policy since I knew what allogenic meant.

  It was one of the thing in which the motar around the bricks began to loosen!

  Edited - I could very well be wrong about the returning of the cards and I'm sure the link is more correct on that detail than I am.
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  64

  Extra Extra read all about it. Study Article PDF to be posted on www.jw.org

  by jah1914 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just got this excerpt from a friend who is an elder all excited about how jah's people are using technology.

  guess we won't have to provide links anymore.. excerpt:.

  we are pleased to inform you that the study articles in the english edition of the watch-tower will be made available as pdf files in the public area of the jw.org web site.

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  Doubting Bro

  I'm surprised it took them this long! You wait, the KM will be there in some fashion in the not too near future. It makes sense and should save them a ton of cash. It's volunatry for the moment but I give them 6 months to a year before it becomes "strongly suggested" that the study WTs be downloaded by individual pubs. If I were them, I would have done this years ago.

  Just another item in the expense reducing trend. Not critizing, just pointing out that the need to reduce costs is a top priority at the WTS, Inc.
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  147

  Did You Personally Know Any JWs That Were Sexually Molested By Other JWs?

  by minimus in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i knew of a handful (which is too many) that were molested by a jehovah's witness.

  it was not typical in my experience.

  what about you???.

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  Doubting Bro

  Never in any congregation that I was a part of but I do have 2 JW friends that were molested by elders when they were kids.